Pandemic & Fear: the Dr. Mark McDonald Interview – Transcript (section 2)

In this second section, we go deeper into the explanation of the mass psychosis that our societies are suffering from. We talk about the vaccine passports; about the passivity, and sometimes obedience, of the population; about the governmental reliance on snitching; and most importantly, about what parents can do to combat the pressure, the coercion, exerted on their children and themselves.

Listen at minute 24 & 20 seconds.


Q: One characteristic of these injections is that they don’t prevent the spread of the disease, that they don’t prevent infection. Despite that characteristic, that is obviously not optimal, because these are not sterilizing vaccines, you have all these jurisdictions that are implementing all these mandates, all these passports. It can be at the level of a city, of a state, of a province, at the federal level. What is happening there? 

It’s an interesting question, I get this question a lot because those who are living in reality, and who are awake and I don’t mean necessarily people that agree with me all the time but just people who are looking around with their own eyes and are believing what they see rather than seeing what they believe, it’s just an important distinction, they don’t understand it either.

I have several different theories. One is that we are actually in a mass delusional psychosis, meaning a disconnect from reality, an inability to think critically. I look at the sunset, you look at the sunset, I see a sun, you see an elephant. One of us is clearly psychotic. A lot of people in this country and elsewhere, they’re psychotic in the true sense, they’re delusional, they believe something that is contrary to reality. 

I think that’s important because without that, I don’t think there’s any way for these clearly internally inconsistent and observed measures that, as you rightly point out, on their face, cannot achieve the end that they promised to achieve. It’s just not possible. 

But I think there’s something else going on. I just thought about it maybe a week or so ago, when I started to consult on a case with a local County here as a med legal consultant, regarding the sexual abuse of a young girl who, after a few years of being raped repeatedly by her father, became pregnant with his child, gave birth to his child, and then of course was removed from the home once a paternity test was determined to find that the father, her biological father, had been actually the rapist.

She’s a 19 years old now, a couple years older than legal age, she is still living on her own, she is in therapy, her father is in prison. You would be shocked to hear that when her therapist discusses the abuse with her, and how she feels about it, she says repeatedly and has said this from the beginning, now 2 years in treatment: 

“I believe my father is a good man, I am very very sad that he was arrested and put in jail and I would love nothing more than to be reunited with him as when I was a child.”

This is not a father who smacked her across the face once or twice or who might have groped her when he was drunk one night. This is a man who repeatedly raped her over a period of years and her sisters, she has three sisters. You ask yourself why on Earth would any girl not see this man for the monster that he is. The reality is he is a monster, but in her view, he is a great dad, he is loving, he is caring, he is been unjustly attacked and criticized when all he wanted to do was keep her safe. 

I think we can understand as individuals, as parents, the concept that there’s only one father and one mother. We don’t get a replacement. If you take away a little girl’s father, she has been abandoned, she has been orphaned. Even if the father is a monster, she does not want to destroy the image of that father, the union archetype for example of the dad, because there’s no one else to replace it. 

She would rather be the daughter of a father who is a monster, but separate out the monster, let’s compartmentalize it, than a daughter who has emancipated herself from the monster but is now bereft of a dad. 

Now expand this idea to an entire nation of individuals who are dependent on a state, who are no longer free thinking, they no longer have allegiance to a church or to God, their allegiance is to the government, which is what’s been happening now for 20, 30, 40, 50 years: the march toward socialism in all Western countries, particularly the anglophone countries. These people are seeing and experiencing actual abuse. The government is abusing its citizens, blocking them from work, blocking them from school, blocking them from movement, forcing them to get shots, this is actual abuse. I believe this is abuse. Child abuse is what’s happening right now with children by the government. 

If all the citizens were to acknowledge that their government is actually the abuser and not their savior, they would then have to reject their government, they would then have to find a substitute government and rebuild. This is a really big leap for citizens to have to acknowledge and accept that the government that they have been beholden to is not only incompetent and corrupt, but that it is actually abusive. Many people can’t tolerate that kind of cognitive dissonance, they can’t tolerate the loss that that would ensue and the obligation to then go and rebuild something better. 

So, I think most people, not all, but most people simply refuse to see it, they simply close their eyes, they stick their head in the sand, they say everything is fine, because the alternative is to look evil in the face, evil is not dark, evil is bright, evil is blinding and they don’t want to do it. 

That’s why I think that these internally absurd self-defeating conflicting policies are being swallowed whole without much criticism by the population. They nod their head. Part of them knows that this doesn’t make any sense, but a larger part of them says shhh, don’t say anything, don’t point it out, don’t point out that there is an internal conflict, because then, the whole house of cards will fall and then where are we going to be? We’re just going to be left with nothing. 

So, I think on a psychological level, I think that explains a lot and I think if we can understand this problem, this societal problem, from a psychological point of view as well as a political and economic one, I think it really will open people’s eyes to the possibility that this is a human problem, it’s not just a political and economic one.

Q: Depending on the country, the jurisdiction, you have protests, you have people who don’t agree. Yet you have still a vast silent majority. In Canada for example, the government promised more repression and was reelected. How can a country move that way and how can the population abide and accept this, including apartheid-like measures such as the vaccine passports? When you look at history, in South Africa, “one man one vote” is not such a long time ago. WWII and the yellow stars aren’t a long time ago either. How do you understand that people accept the unacceptable from the authorities?

I think there are two reasons. One is more obvious than the other, at least to me, and more long-standing but both are based, I think, on intrinsic qualities of human beings which we ignore to our peril. The core philosophy of the left, at least the veneer of their philosophy – their underlying philosophy is chaos and destruction – but the veneer of the left throughout history has been, people are intrinsically born good and it is their environment that corrupts them. 

>>  Dr. Mark McDonald – Part 2 - The United States of Fear

I believe that is contrary to reality, I think people are born mixed, they’re born with potential, and it is by controlling their destructive and evil urges that they rise above their core primitive basic human qualities and become something more akin to a benevolent creature. At their core, human beings, for purely psychological and biological reasons, do not crave Liberty, they crave dependency, they crave being taken care of and this occurs from the moment that they’re born. 

A baby doesn’t come out of the mother’s womb and starts dancing around and saying I want to run off and establish my own household. Even if the baby could do it, the baby wouldn’t want to because what the baby really wants and needs at that moment is to be held, to be protected, to be kept warm, to be fed, to be cleaned. And over time as the baby develops interest, curiosity, capacity, strength and courage, the baby will start to reject that caretaking and perhaps the mother will encourage it by withdrawing some of the caretaking bit by bit to encourage a bit of suffering that the baby then tolerates, overcomes and then champions through independence and growth. 

That is how human beings develop, that’s just basic psychology, basic biology. When that is blocked, when you have a government that comes in and says “let’s suspend freedom” for a little bit because we’re in a crisis and in suspending your freedom, we’re going to give you something which is going to make you feel really taken care of, we’re going to give you checks in the mail because you can’t work, we’re going to give you zoom instead of school because you can’t go to school, we’re going to give you all kinds of injections that are going to protect you and keep you safe from this terrible scary virus that’s leaking in through the window sills and coming down the chimney like an evil Santa Claus, we’re going to protect you from it. 

People, as their baby nature comes out say oh thank you Mommy, thank you Daddy that’s exactly what I wanted, I didn’t want to have to go to work and go to school and keep myself healthy and lose weight and stop smoking that requires work, that requires I suffer in order to gain that strength and independence and growth. No, I’m going to give all of that up, I’m just going to sit and get fat and eat chips and stop working and go to school and take my medicine because you told me that that’s a good thing to do, I’m a good boy to do that. That’s part of the baby mind that comes out and is encouraged by government, I think that’s one very important thing that needs to be kept in mind. 

The second, which I come to see more recently and which is a lot darker, and I also believe is intrinsic to people, but is often kept in check by social norms which are no longer present, is the encouragement of sadism. I see so much pleasure from individuals in causing and witnessing and experiencing the suffering of others, I’ve never seen this before. This is neighbor, this is friend and friend, this is student and teacher, this is government bureaucrat and subservient serf. These people who rat out their neighbor, who find businesses for staying open, who order parents who were protesting the teaching of transgender and racist ideology in their schools, to be arrested and put in jail as domestic terrorists. 

These people aren’t doing it just because they’re misguided, just because they think they’re doing good but they’re actually not. Many of these people actually enjoy it, just like in World War II you had these guards that enjoyed beating up people in the concentration camps, watching them suffer, just as you see in China, during the Revolution, were you saw citizens being rebranded as ambassadors for the party and given sticks and encouraged to go out and beat up their neighbors, beat up the boss that they used to work for because they were considered to be anti-revolutionaries. 

They didn’t do it begrudgingly, they did it with pleasure. They loved it, because when a human being is not only allowed but encouraged and rewarded to take out that intrinsic urge to harm other people, and its present in every human being to some degree, many people do not have the wherewithal to push back against it and say I will not do that, I will not go against people that I respect, I will not harm them. And every single person has had this experience, you step into a store or an elevator or you walk down the street, you’re not wearing a mask and someone comes up to you, doesn’t say “oh, you know, I’m really scared, I really wish you would wear a mask”, he comes up to you and berates you, yells at you, screams at you, blows a whistle, flags down a staff member in the store rather than turning away, rather than just walking the other direction. 

If you didn’t want to be around someone without a mask as you were scared, just leave, but that’s not what people do. They actually go out of their way to see those people attacked, physically beaten, thrown out of the store, fined, arrested, have their children taken away. This cannot be explained by a misunderstanding, by people who were scared. This is sadism. 

When you combine those two together, the drive towards dependency and the encouragement of sadism, this is what you get. This is the sickness and the evil that becomes unleashed, like letting the dragon out of the cave. This is horrible darkness and destruction. We saw it in the 20th century in all of the dictatorial regimes, from the Pol Pot to Hitler to Mao, Stalin, Chavez, Castro and others. These people are sick evil, demented, dark individuals and they encourage that in the people that are beneath them, when they take away liberty and they encourage sadism.

Q: There is a U.S. agency dealing with occupational health and I think they now encourage denunciation of those corporations, companies, or even small businesses that are not implementing the mandates. Is that fitting that analysis you are making about this trend towards kind of a division of society?

That’s a perfect example, the OSHA -Occupational Safety and Health Administration – has formally announced through the Biden administration, policies that will encourage employees and other businesses to rat out those companies that are not in compliance with the mandates for forcing shots on all of their employees. 

This is coming from the very top, from the executive office in the federal government, jump all the way down to the very bottom. It’s a perfect example. Just two days ago I saw a meme come out on Twitter through the city of Santa Monica. In that little tweet meme, it said those restaurants that are not enforcing vaccine card mandates at the door need to be known. If you see this happening, we have now a number set up for you to call as a good citizen and report them. Call 311 and report the business, do your duty, do your civic duty as a good citizen so that we can all be kept safe, so that we can all be free, in the inverse sense of free, from this horrible contagion. 

>>  Pandemic & Fear: the Dr. Mark McDonald Interview - Transcript (section 1)

So, on a city level, you’re seeing city government encouraging citizens to destroy businesses who make the choice to not comply with mandates and at the federal level, you’re seeing federal agencies such as OSHA encouraging citizens to destroy businesses, big businesses who don’t comply with internal vaccine mandates. These sorts of techniques are right out of the playbook, of the dictator governments from the 20th century. Every single one used these. The reason why is that it isn’t possible for a government to control a population without the supporting complicity of the citizenry. There is no police force, there is no army large enough to control an entire population. The population must control itself.

In Los Angeles, we saw that from the very beginning, when mayor Eric Garcetti announced the snitch program, when businesses were shut down. He encouraged so-called “ambassadors” to go around the city looking for businesses that were still open and when they were still open, in defiance of the closure order, he asked them to call the city at a hot line so that the utility companies could come out and shut down the electricity, the water and the gas, so these businesses would be forced to shut down. And if that didn’t work, they put a fence around the business so they couldn’t physically enter the premises. 

That was in the first or second month of the shut down here in Los Angeles and here it is ongoing, it just keeps being reinvented, city, county, state, federal level and now we have OSHA mandates and OSHA snitch programs. These are so important for the government because without them they really don’t have the power to police this. The people would rise up, the people would split off, pro and against, but you can’t be pro and against. If you have a restaurant in Santa Monica and you are full every night, as many of the restaurants are that violate these measures because people want to go eat without having to show cards. Two, three, four hundred people can go through these restaurants. No problem, nobody gets sick, everybody’s fine. Then one person shows up and says: “aren’t you checking vaccine cards?” and the owner says no. The person calls 311 the next day and the restaurant gets a $1,000 fine. The day after that it’s 3,000, then 4,000, then 5,000, then utilities get shut off. It only takes one person in this kind of a program to override the will of thousands. Just one person: that’s why it’s so scary.

Q: At the family level, a key discussion in the next weeks and months will be about the kids to be vaccinated or not. We know there is a safety issue. You have all these frontline doctors, whom you know very well because you are part of that group, who basically say there is absolutely no reason to have these injections in kids, that it’s actually much more dangerous for them than any kind of benefits that could be derived.  How can families cope with that situation? For example, if you have two parents who don’t agree or if you have a kid who says “I don’t want to have these injections” but they aren’t in a decision-making situation. Or if you have a kid who says: “Oh yes I want to play soccer, I want to be with my friends” and the parents are opposed. This is drama that is being a created at the level of every single family, isn’t it?

Yes, well families have been pitted against one another from the beginning, which was part of the entire approach to taking over the citizenry. It’s “divide and conquer” and this has been true again throughout the 20th century and all of the totalitarian regimes. You first deputize the children to inform against the parents, against the teachers, those who have authority, authority at a local level, authority over children: parents, authority over the community: priests, rabbis, teachers, those who provide guidance, those who people look up to and respect, who are not political, who are not military, those are the first people that need to be taken out.  

Once you take them out, now the entire population is rudderless, they’re just floating without any guidance, when you don’t have guidance, there’s a vacuum and who do you look towards? You look towards the government, you look up. So the goal of these force vaccine programs is to create division. The Sesame Street cartoon that you started with is a good example of that. When children believe that it is fun and good and right to get a shot, when Big Bird tells you, when Bert and Ernie tell you, that you’re good kids, when you see a cartoon that says kids are jumping around with capes on, I’m a superhero since I got my shot –  that came out last week in LA County – I’m a superhero we should all be superheroes and then they hear that their soccer practice does not allow them to go without a shot and if they’re in high school, they can’t compete without a shot and if they’re in college, they can’t be part of the team without a shot, and if they’re in middle school, all their friends are holding birthday parties at one child’s home and the mother says: “I don’t allow any kids over that don’t have shots” and then all their friends are walking around with stickers and hundred dollar bills and ice cream cones and donuts and say: “I just got my shot, don’t you want to? What’s wrong with you? Why are you so weird?” No child can compete with that kind of pressure, no child can compete, it is not possible it is unending, it is relentless and it will crush them.

At the same time, you have the parents coming under assault because as you said one parent might turn against the other and they might have differing views, perhaps one parent wants to travel, maybe they’re divorced and the kids need to go out of state, they need to go to another country, can’t have the kids do that without a vaccine. So now what do you do? You go to court and you say: “I have the right to keep my kid from traveling because I don’t want to give him the shot.” Now you’ve got one right pitted against another, the right to be with a parent in another state or country versus your right as the opposing parents to not get them injected. Which right wins out and this is a horrible kind of battle, absolutely horrible, even if both parents don’t want the kid to get the shot, one parent has to give up custody. 

>>  Dr. John Littell, MD - Interview Part 2

These are irresolvable problems but they’re intentional, this problem is being intentionally driven into the family to create discord, disagreement, pressure, coercion, fracturing, so that once the structure, the family structure fractures under all of this stress, the government comes and swoops in and says:“I’m going to fix it, I’m going to give you back all of these freedoms that were taken away, I’m going to give you back the right to travel, the right to go to school, to be with your friends. 

In other words the jailer, the one who locked you in the cell, now comes with a key, a month, two months, three months later. You don’t even recognize him anymore, you don’t remember he’s the man who locked you up in the cell, all you see is that he’s got a key and he says “I have the key and I’m going to unlock the cell” and you jump up and you embrace him and you thank him and you kiss his feet for being such a kind soul to let you out of this cell, forgetting the fact that he’s the one that locked you in there in the first place even when you did nothing wrong. This is very perverse, this is very sick but it’s very effective and I am incredibly sympathetic to parents who don’t know what to do. 

What I always tell parents is this: there are short-term losses and short-term costs that you might be forced to choose in order to keep your children safe. That is perhaps a loss of friends, of your children, perhaps the loss of school and education for a short of time until you can get home school or remote school, perhaps you might be forced to move to a different geographical location. At least in the US, we still have the freedom of movement and we have 50 states. That’s not true in the other Western worlds, Western countries. If you were willing to take a risk now and give up something small that can be recuperated overtime, temporarily, you will avoid the possibility that you will irrevocably, permanently alter your child’s life forever in a way that cannot be undone. 

The worst example of that of course being the loss of your child, the death of your child. But in other areas perhaps permanent heart damage, perhaps loss of fertility, neurological impairment. There’s all kinds of problems with these vaccines that may not even show up for years. How would you feel, if in order to keep your life more comfortable, in order to have your friends go to birthday parties, stay in the same public school, you maimed your child, you kept your child from being able to have a biological family? Would you ever forgive yourself for that? Most parents wouldn’t. 

So, what I tell parents is: don’t think of today, tomorrow, next week, think of the long-term, think of what’s important in the big picture, what is your goal, what is your responsibility as a parent? Your first primary goal is to keep your child safe, not from the Wu flu, because that’s irrelevant. You want to keep your child safe from unnecessary interventions that harm your child, such as these injections. Once you start from that position, I think, everything else starts to follow in line, it stops being confusing, it stops being a debate. You say to yourself: I’m going to protect my child at any cost. After that, every option, every available way to avoid this debacle is on the table and the parents can then align on that.   

If the two parents don’t share that agreement, if the two parents don’t believe that that’s their primary responsibility, God help them, I don’t know what you do, take your child and run away. It’s almost an impossible situation and unfortunately, it’s been as I said, entirely generated by government. It’s an external problem it’s not an internal one.

Q: In many jurisdictions, the children, from say age 14, have the right to take the shot without parental consent. I know, for example, in the province of Quebec, kids are just asked, regarding inform consent, if they want the shot. If the kid answers yes, that’s it, and the injection is administered. How do you deal with adolescents who have some decision-making rights?

Well it may be too late at this point because it’s going to be dependent on what you’ve done and how you’ve raised them up till now. If you’ve been an absent parent and you said “kids should make their own decisions,” I’m just here to be a buddy, you want to smoke pot, I will smoke pot with you, I think it’s a lost cause because you basically have given up your parental authority long ago. Your child is just going to go do it. Sorry there is nothing we can do for you. But if you have raised your child to be obedient to the parent. Or if you have raised your child to respect you, and to question and challenge external pressures that conflict with the parents focus and the parents’ views, if the child is still holding on to your values, then you may still have some influence over your child, even though legally, you may not have any anymore. 

So you have to sit down with your child and say look this is a really important conversation we’re going to have, I know that I can’t stop you from getting this injection, I know that you’re being pressured by your friends, I know that you may even be a little confused about whether you need it or not, but let me tell you, as your parent, as somebody who has kept you safe all your life, you need to trust me on this and to wait, you need to wait. Do not go and do this now. If in 2, 3, 4 years, you turn 18, you still feel like this is important to you, I will respect your wishes but it is not the time to do it now, because we do not know how this will affect you and I want to ensure that you are kept physically safe from harm as long as possible, as long as I live and breathe and I cannot do that if you go and get this injection. I hope you understand. I hope you respect me even though you may not understand the why. You may not agree with the how, but respect this decision that I’m asking you to honor, at least for the time being. And then, wait until later. Defer this decision. If you don’t, something terrible could happen to you and it would really really hurt me and I would never be able to forgive myself for allowing this to happen. 

I think this is a very very important thing to say to the children. Now they may end up just doing it anyway. But at least, you know you did what you could. What you’ve done up until now as a parent is going to determine how much your child honors and respects that counsel. 


Additional sections to be published shortly.

See below previously published Section 1.